Behind the crippling economic and political situation in Venezuela is Nicolás Maduro.

After years of high inflation and a tumultuous relationship with the United States, the president of Venezuela faces a country waiting for political intervention. US President Donald Trump wants to oust Maduro, a former revolutionary turned anti-democratic leader, and recently said his “days are numbered.”

Maduro’s regime is all about strength and exercising control over his opposition. His demeanor, rise to power, and relationship to his adversaries are pivotal to understanding where Venezuela goes next.

Host Noel King spoke with Jon Lee Anderson, a staff writer for New Yorker magazine, to understand the leader and how he got here. Anderson is a veteran journalist who has interviewed Maduro on multiple occasions.

Below is an excerpt of the conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to Today, Explained wherever you get podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify.

Nicolás Maduro — you interviewed him in 2017. Pretty rare interview. What is he like as a person?

He’s a big man. He’s about 6 foot-4 or -5. He’s at least 250 pounds. He’s warm in person; he likes to hug; he’ll break into song if he’s with the right crowd or dance.

Maduro doesn’t have quite the same magnetic persona that his mentor and predecessor Hugo Chávez did. There has always been a pretty florid opposition in Venezuela, and [Maduro] has cracked down hard on them. He comes from the urban left. He was also a left-wing union organizer. He had some training in Cuba. He is not a democrat. He sees himself as a revolutionary.

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