As the Democratic Party debates whether Joe Biden should stay in the presidential race, Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer has been at the center of the storm. While the governor has long been eyed as a future presidential candidate, after Biden’s shaky debate she suddenly found her name being floated as a last-minute replacement at the top of the 2024 ticket. Whitmer, who is promoting her new memoir, True Gretch: What I’ve Learned About Life, Leadership, and Everything In Between, swiftly rejected the “Draft Gretch” movement and remains one of the Biden-Harris campaign’s top surrogates. In the latest episode of On With Kara Swisher, Kara has a long talk with Whitmer about her recent interactions with Biden, what she’s learned from leading a battleground state, and the case Democrats need to make to voters. Below, an edited excerpt of their conversation.

Journalist Kara Swisher brings the news and newsmakers to you twice a week, on Mondays and Thursdays.

Kara Swisher: Do you see yourself as a happy warrior? Because you are kind of a jolly soul in a lot of ways. I’ve never caught you not smiling. I don’t know you that well, but you don’t strike me as someone who is anything but a happy warrior. Or are you a battleground general?

Gretchen Whitmer: I try to be both. You know, I try to be tough like Michiganders are. We’ve got grit, and it’s a very midwestern thing to try to also be kind to people. So it is kind of two sides of the same coin. I want to make sure that I don’t get distracted by baloney and that I am actually doing something that makes people’s lives better. And I love people. That’s why I do this work. I’m as comfortable in a Black church as I am in a bowling alley and more comfortable in both those places than a black-tie dinner. I get energy from people, and that keeps me optimistic about where we are.

Swisher: But right now, you’re a battleground general, presumably, at this moment. How do you look at that role as the most popular politician in Michigan, I would suspect? This is a battleground state going into the presidential election. How do you look at yourself? What is your role in the upcoming election? You are not standing for election this year, for people who don’t know that.

Whitmer: Correct. So I just got reelected a year and a half ago, won by almost 11 points when a lot of folks were writing my political obituary months out before the election. And I’m proud of that. I’m proud of what we’ve been able to get done. I’m also very sober about the fact that Michigan is a microcosm of the country.

That’s why elections often come down to a handful of states like Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Michiganders tend to split our ticket. Sometimes we’ll have a Democrat for a long time and then a Republican. We’ll swing. And so it is a state that you can never take your eye off of and you can never take for granted. I’m very comfortable as governor and the agenda that I’ve set forth, but we’ve got an important presidential election coming up. We’ve got to show up in all 83 counties. No person should ever be written off. We can learn from asking questions and showing up. And that’s, I think, the role that I take very seriously going into this election. I’m also a co-chair on the Biden-Harris campaign.

Swisher: Mm-hmm.

Whitmer: Knowing that my state is maybe going to be one of the toughest battleground states is something that keeps me focused on the work that we’ve got to do in Michigan.

Swisher: So you are also one of the Biden campaign’s top surrogates and there are a lot of questions. Why is it so tough right now, given the economy is in relatively good shape? There have been all kinds of things passed. There’s all kinds of legislation. But since this Biden-Trump debate, many people, top Democrats, important political pundits, New York Times opinion columnists, big donors, a lot of people I’ve talked to, regular people have concerns.

Some have been calling for Biden to drop out. Others are just expressing concerns, being sort of slapped down pretty hard by some Democrats for even mentioning it. And obviously, your name’s being floated as a replacement. I know you’ve answered that question and disavowed the Draft Gretch movement, but walk us through this.

Whitmer: Yeah, I concur with that. And I know that this is a lot of people in our country. While we’ve got historic low........

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