Former US and Iranian Negotiators Discuss Trump’s Failed Iran War Talks |
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After the first round of ceasefire negotiations in Pakistan collapsed over the weekend, we speak to two former nuclear negotiators about prospects for ending the ongoing U.S.-Israeli war on Iran, including what another nuclear deal might look like. Robert Malley, a U.S. negotiator for the 2015 nuclear deal (which President Trump withdrew from in his first term), says Trump’s “mercurial” behavior makes it difficult to predict his objectives and the course of any future talks. “Iran was in full compliance with the JCPOA” and was blindsided by the U.S.’s decision to pull out of the deal, says Seyed Hossein Mousavian, who served as spokesperson for Iran’s nuclear negotiation team from 2003 to 2005. Now its leaders “don’t know whether the U.S. is really for diplomacy or not.”
This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.
AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s show looking at the state of negotiations between the United States and Iran. Delegates from both countries could soon return to Pakistan for another round of peace talks, after negotiations in Islamabad failed to reach a long-term deal. Reuters and the Associated Press report a date has not yet been decided, but negotiations could resume as early as the end of the week.
The New York Times reports the U.S. and Iran have traded proposals for a suspension of Iranian nuclear activities, with Iran proposing a five-year suspension, after the U.S. sought a 20-year moratorium.
After talks collapsed Sunday, Vice President JD Vance declared that Iran, quote, “chose not to accept our terms,” unquote, while Iranian state media blamed, quote, “excessive demands,” unquote, from Washington for the talks’ collapse. President Trump then announced a naval blockade of Iranian ports, which Iran has called an “act of piracy.”
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Speaking on Fox News, Vance, who led the U.S. negotiations, said the Iranians are engaged in “economic terrorism” by blocking the strait and that, quote, “two can play at that game.” Vance also said the ball is in the Iranian court.
VICE PRESIDENT JD VANCE: They basically threatened any ship that’s moving through the Straits of Hormuz. Well, as the president of the United States showed, two can play at that game. And if the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, we’re going to abide by a simple principle, that no Iranian ships are getting out, either. We know that’s a big deal to them. We know that applies additional economic leverage.
VICE PRESIDENT JD VANCE: They basically threatened any ship that’s moving through the Straits of Hormuz. Well, as the president of the United States showed, two can play at that game. And if the Iranians are going to try to engage in economic terrorism, we’re going to abide by a simple principle, that no Iranian ships are getting out, either. We know that’s a big deal to them. We know that applies additional economic leverage.
AMY GOODMAN: The maneuvers intensify fears globally for a prolonged economic shock. China’s Foreign Ministry has condemned the U.S. naval blockade of Iranian ports as “dangerous and irresponsible,” warning against any effort to obstruct Chinese vessels. On Monday, the Chinese Defense Minister Dong Jun said in a statement, quote, “We have trade and energy agreements with Iran; we expect others not to interfere in our affairs. The Strait of Hormuz is open to us,” unquote. His warning came as at least four Iran-linked ships crossed the Strait of Hormuz on Tuesday after the Trump administration declared the start of its blockade.
We’re joined now in the studio by two former negotiators for the U.S. and Iran in this Democracy Now! exclusive.
Ambassador Seyed Hossein Mousavian served as spokesperson for Iran in its nuclear negotiations with the European Union from 2003 to 2005. He also served as Iran’s ambassador to Germany. He’s author of two books, The Iranian Nuclear Crisis: A Memoir and, most recently, Iran and the United States: An Insider’s View on the Failed Past and the Road to Peace.
And we’re joined by Rob Malley. He was one of the negotiators on the 2015 Iran nuclear deal, known as the JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. He served as a senior Middle East official under Presidents Clinton, Obama and Biden. Under Biden, he served as the special envoy for Iran. He is now a lecturer at Yale University, former president of the International Crisis Group, co-author with Hussein Agha of a new book, Tomorrow Is Yesterday: Life, Death, and the Pursuit of Peace in Israel/Palestine.
Why don’t we start off, in this exclusive we have with the two of you at the table, American and Iranian negotiator, with your assessment of what’s taken place? It can be right through to this week, the failed negotiations, and before that, the U.S.-Israeli attack on Iran. Why don’t we begin with you, Rob Malley?
ROBERT MALLEY: Well, first, I think — thanks for having me.
You know, we can’t ignore the fact that this war was unlawful, unjustified, unnecessary. And I think even if we’re now going to talk about negotiations, even if the negotiations are to succeed, none of that could let us forget or excuse how we got here. So, I do want to insist on that, because, you know, if negotiations succeed, it’s going to be too quick for the administration to say, “You see? We were right.”
But I think the real question now is whether the U.S. and Iran are engaging in these negotiations, trying to find a solution that will meet both their sides’ core needs, or whether, in this case, the U.S. takes the attitude that “we won the war because we’re stronger, and if you’re not accepting the war, then you’re going to — we’re going to inflict more pain.” That won’t work. And it won’t work because Iran believes, and with some justification, that it has inflicted pain on the U.S. and that every day that goes by, it’s going to inflict more. So, they’re not in a position right now where Iran is sort of begging for a deal because it wants to avoid an escalation. They believe, again, rightly or wrongly, that they could sustain the pain longer than the U.S. can.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, as you talk about what Iran believes, let’s go to the Iranian ambassador, Hossein Mousavian. Your assessment of what has taken place? Now it seems to be coming down to the nuclear negotiations, around, well, Iran saying they’ll do a moratorium for five years and the United States demanding 20. But, overall, the picture?
SEYED HOSSEIN MOUSAVIAN: I think Iranians now they’re coming to negotiation table with mistrust more than ever, because once the deal was agreed in 2015, Iran was in full compliance, and the U.S. withdrew. The second, there was a nuclear negotiation between Iran and the U.S. in 2025. Negotiation, as the foreign minister of Oman said, had significant progress. Deal was within reach. The U.S. withdrew and attacked Iran. We had negotiation in 2026. Again, as Oman foreign minister said, negotiations had significant progress, deal was within reach. Again, the U.S. attacked. Then we had the latest in Islamabad. They had just one-day negotiation. It was the highest level after revolution, after 48 years. And the U.S. side said there was progress. Only nuclear was not agreed. We agreed on everything, as President Trump said. Iranian foreign minister also said we were very close to a final deal. And then immediately the U.S. imposed a blockade, I mean, sea blockade there. That’s why they have — they really don’t know whether the U.S. is really for diplomacy or not.
If you’re talking now about nuclear, first of all, every........