Full Text | 'Is Israel's War Justified?' Gideon Levy Answers |
Karan Thapar recently interviewed Israeli journalist and author Gideon Levy, who said that Israel’s war on Iran is ineffective, unjustified, and strategically flawed. Levy criticised widespread Israeli support for war, targeted killings, media self-censorship, and Benjamin Netanyahu’s leadership, warning the conflict may strengthen Iran and isolate Israel globally.
The full text of their conversation, transcribed by Hajara Najeeb, is as follows.
Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to a special interview for the Wire. My guest today is often called the conscience of Israel. The truth is, there are very few others who have the strength of conviction and courage to criticize their country, particularly when it’s embroiled in war. So what does he think of Israel’s attack on Iran? Does he believe it’s justified or the wrong response to the Iranian threat? Was the killing of the Ayatollah the right thing to do? How does he view Benjamin Netanyahu’s policies and the Israeli people’s support for the war? Those are some of the issues I should raise today with the international award-winning Haaretz columnist and author Gideon Levy.
Mr. Levy, for decades, Iran has been chanting death to Israel and calls Israel little Satan compared to America’s great Satan. In your eyes, does that make Iran an existential threat to Israel?
Gideon Levy: First of all, Karan, let me thank you for being interviewed again. It’s always a pleasure to be interviewed by you.
Words are not enough to make an existential threat. This does not mean that the threats of Iran shouldn’t have been taken seriously and they were taken seriously. But as long as Iran did not possess nuclear capabilities, and it doesn’t, there was not a real immediate existential threat. No one can claim that Israel (Iran) was an existential threat even though I repeat myself their threats shouldn’t be ignored.
KT: Then tell me, to many people it seems that war is Benjamin Netanyahu’s first and automatic response to the threat from Iran. But is it in your eyes the right or optimal response?
GL: First of all, I wouldn’t relate it only to Netanyahu. I think that’s Israel’s strategy for many years that war is the first option. The diplomacy is always the less favorite option. You see, throughout the years, you see it also when you come and ask the people in all kind of surveys. The last survey showed that 93% of the Israelis supported launching this war with Iran, 93%. This is a North Korean figure. Where in democracies you have such a figure of 93% of support, no matter in what. So the Israeli instinct, the Israeli mindset always favours war over compromises, over diplomacy, over agreements, that’s a matter of fact. Now, in this case, I have no doubts we are now one month in this war, the achievements are very limited, the goals, none of the goals was really achieved, none of them and above all, we don’t know where we are aiming. Are we aiming to more months of war and destruction and killings, are we aiming at an agreement which Israel will not be part of? Nobody knows.
KT: Just before the war started, Steve Witkoff famously said that Iran was just two weeks away from making a nuclear bomb. I take it you don’t believe that.
GL: It’s not a question of belief. All the experts, except Steve Witkoff who is serving a certain purpose and a certain actor, a major actor in this scene, but nobody say it’s two weeks, it’s ridiculous and if it is two weeks, what happened in June? In June, we were told that Iran was taking decades backwards with its capabilities, so from June to now, they are two weeks away from a bomb. You know everyone can say whatever they want but there are certain things which must be taken as a fact and the fact is that it was not two weeks. I don’t know how long it was but all the experts don’t see it as two weeks but yes the uranium is still there. Enriched uranium is still there and the danger is still there and it should have been handled in a better way than again a terrible war without achieving anything.
KT: So the war in your eyes is not justified. The problem should have been handled through diplomacy and compromise.
GL: It’s not, this time unlike Gaza, this time it’s not about justification. It’s about a realistic judgment if this war is the best option and in my view this war is not the best option because you see how poor are the achievements and how heavy is the price and we don’t know yet how heavy it will be because we might be only in the beginning, I don’t know, we might be by the end of this war, we might also face more months of war of attrition which Israel United States and Iran cannot handle. Maybe Iran can but Israel for sure not.
KT: Let me ask you about the targeted assassinations of Ayatollah Khamanei, Ali Larijani, the defence minister, the army chief, the IRGC chief. Were those targeted killings justified, or in your eyes do they raise moral questions that your countrymen do not want to address and answer?
GL: Again, more than moral question, they raise practical questions. Are they clever? Are they moral? No. I don’t believe in any moral murders. Let’s call it by its name. Those are murders. Those are murders. If it would have been by an organised crime family, you would have called it murders, ordered murders, planned murders. You call it, the world calls it assassination. But let’s remember by the end of the day those are acts of murder and by definition I cannot be enthusiastic about it. Israel made it as a strategy. Israel in the last two years killed half of the leadership in the Middle East. I don’t want to be part of this. I mean that’s not a strategy. Here and there in a war you might find it........