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The Ezra Klein Show

By Ezra Klein

I’ve watched a lot of presidential campaigns, and I can’t remember one in which the contest for the Democratic vice-presidential nomination has played out quite so publicly. And that’s allowed for some voices and figures to break through who you might not have imagined before. Foremost among them is Gov. Tim Walz of Minnesota, because of one interview on “Morning Joe,” saying of Donald Trump and JD Vance, “These guys are just weird.”

That was the interview heard around the Democratic Party. I remember it hit me on social media. I saw that and thought, “Oh, that really connects.” And then all of a sudden, it was all you heard from Democrats. “Weird, weird, weird. These guys are weird.”

Why did this connect this way? And is there a risk of this falling into something that can bedevil Democrats, coming off as an insult to Trump’s supporters, like Hillary Clinton’s “deplorables” comment in 2016?

I wanted to hear Walz go deeper on all of this. He grew up in a small town in the Midwest and repeatedly won a congressional seat that was quite red. So I also wanted to hear his thoughts on why the Democrats have been losing the types of voters he knows so well and how to win them back.

Walz joined me for a conversation on my podcast. This is an edited transcript of our conversation.

You’ve had a hell of a couple of weeks. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen any single person, including, for that matter, a president, change an entire party’s messaging the way your riff on “Morning Joe” — on the weirdness of Donald Trump and JD Vance and Republicans of their ilk — did. You’ve been using that word for a while when a lot of other Democrats are using “existential,” “terrifying,” “undemocratic.” I’m not saying you don’t believe those things. But why, for you, “weird”?

All those things are true about an existential threat to global peace, in my opinion, a desire to strip constitutional power and division. All of those things are true.

What I see is that that kind of stuff is overwhelming for people. It’s like other big issues like climate change. If you can’t tackle it one piece at a time, it just seems, why should I do anything about it?

It’s the emperor’s wearing no clothes, is all this story is — this guy’s weird stories and inability to connect like a human being. What happened was, the minute that spell came down, the minute everybody in the crowd realized the emperor wasn’t wearing any clothes, we can sweep in and say, “Who’s asking to ban birth control? Who’s asking to ban these books? Who’s asking to take veterans’ benefits away?”

And then we come in and say, “Look, Kamala Harris is talking about making sure that you have expanded health care, making sure there’s day care available, making sure that it’s easier to get free school lunches.”

And “weird" is specific to him. I’m certainly not talking about Republicans. I’m not talking about the people who are at those rallies. I’m hearing this from my Republican friends, because the people at those rallies, they’re the ones that can most benefit from the message we’re delivering.

I looked at him the other night in St. Cloud, Minn. Young women behind him. We’re going to provide reproductive care for them. I saw a group holding “Somalis for Trump.” We have a large Somali population. We’re very proud of that. Donald Trump has said, “We’re going to have a Muslim ban.” And he talked about Congresswoman Ilhan Omar and the Somali community as being so detrimental rather than an asset to this. So we’re going to take care of those people, too.

He’s not going to do that. What do they have if they don’t have that fear? What do they have if there’s not a dystopian society? What do they have if only Dear Leader can come in and fix it?

If people are saying, “Actually, I’d like to have cheaper day care. I’d actually like them to quit talking about this. And I really don’t care who somebody’s married to” — because I believe the vast majority of people really don’t want to be in other people’s bedrooms.

And I use the thing of small town — this is where JD Vance doesn’t get it. You survive best by just minding your own damn business. Just stay out of people’s business.

I want to get at this distinction you’re making, between Trump or Vance and the crowds. Because one of the most dangerous emotions that Democrats sometimes let slip — the negative side of, I think, the liberal personality — can be a kind of contempt, a kind of smugness. This is why Hillary Clinton’s comment on deplorables was so damaging. How do you police that boundary?

This is where I take offense to JD Vance and “Hillbilly Elegy.” Those are my people. I come from a town of 400 — 24 kids in a class, 12 cousins, farming, those types of things. And I know they’re not weird. I know they’re not Donald Trump.

The thing is, we have to get them away from what he’s trying to sell because that’s not who they are. Just picture in your mind Donald Trump coming home after a day of work and picking up a Frisbee and throwing it. And his dog catches it, and the dog runs over, and he gives him a good belly rub because he’s a good boy. That’s what I do. And that’s what those rallygoers do. That is exactly who they are, and they’re going through the same things all of our families are.

He’s captured some of this. And fear is scary. I mean, the world is changing.........

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