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Last Friday, after deliberating for only a few hours, a Manhattan jury awarded journalist E. Jean Carroll $83 million in damages for defamation in a lawsuit she filed against Donald J. Trump. The former president, who devoted most of his in-person energy at trial to insulting the judge, bullying the plaintiff, and pitching tiny tantrums, has not only conceded that he was out-lawyered, but has also, perhaps in a historic first, avoided defaming Carroll on social media or in the press in the intervening days, seemingly in actual recognition of this verdict. There seems to be, at least for the moment, a template for stopping a serial harasser, misogynist, and adjudicated sexual abuser from persisting in that behavior.

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Perhaps all of our anguish about how the existing legal guardrails are inadequate to hold Trump to account are wrong. Maybe we already know exactly what needs to be done to win against him, in a court of law at least—it demands only rock-ribbed judges, seasoned lawyers, and a jury that can still detect a bully when they smell one.

Carroll’s legal team handled the litigation as it handled the prior defamation trial, with competence and focus. Roberta Kaplan, whose law firm represents Carroll, has not only prevailed over Trump in both civil defamation lawsuits, she also beat the Nazis and Klansmen who marched in Charlottesville in 2017, and successfully represented Edie Windsor in a challenge to the Defense of Marriage Act at the Supreme Court, opening the door to marriage equality.

Kaplan, who became a chapter in my book, Lady Justice, about women lawyers who fought back against Trump during his presidency, is again receiving plaudits this week for her legal acumen and strategic skills in court (disclosure, Kaplan is a friend). But there’s one other quality Kaplan brings to counsel table that perhaps hasn’t received sufficient attention. I point it out because it in fact seems critical to her larger successful strategy. I can’t take credit for it either—it came to me at a dinner last year when her wife, Rachel, said something that has stuck with me since: Kaplan agreed to represent both E. Jean Carroll and Edie Windsor when almost no one else would because she sees older women as people in full. In a culture that prizes youth and beauty and celebrity, and in a culture where such bias counts double for women, Kaplan prizes lived experience, especially in those dismissed as invisible to reality-TV litigation. And maybe using real women to beat reality-TV lawsuits (and reality-TV lawyers) is ultimately just really smart lawyering.

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I’d been thinking about all this because I have been pondering (dreading, really) what another Trump run for president would mean for women in America—beyond just national abortion bans and criminalization of miscarriage. I’ve been wondering how it will feel to once again see the brazen misogyny of Trump rewarded and celebrated, as directed at Nikki Haley and Taylor Swift and Robbie Kaplan and E. Jean Carroll. This week on Amicus, I spoke with Molly Jong-Fast, who is another friend of Kaplan’s and Carroll’s as well as a special correspondent for Vanity Fair. One of the things Molly impressed upon me in that conversation was that while Trump has been accused of sexual harassment, abuse, and assault by over two dozen women, it ultimately took an 80-year-old plaintiff to hold him accountable in court.

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Part of our conversation, which ranged from contemplation of Carroll’s immense courage to dread of what the months ahead will bring for American women, is below, lightly edited for clarity.

Molly Jong-Fast: There are two parts to Trumpism. One is threats and intimidation. I mean, they must have anonymous juries, and that’s the kind of thing they do when the jury is looking at an organized crime case.

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So, think about E. Jean. She’s 80 years old, and she’s going against Trump. She’s going against Trump because no one else has been able to successfully go against Trump. He has all of these allegations of sexual assault. So many—so many that I knew that my best friend from high school’s mother was one of them. This is how many there are. And, she came out to People magazine. It didn’t matter. I mean, she suffered and decided she was going to come out and say he touched her boob. She decided to come out because she couldn’t live with herself. And it didn’t matter; it didn’t move the needle at all. So, I think E. Jean is thinking this is one of these situations where if it’s not her, it will not be anyone.

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Dahlia Lithwick: What you’re saying is really something I wanted listeners to think about. He spent last week and this week glowering and glaring at her, glaring at her attorney, making faces at jurors, muttering so much that when the judge threatened eventually to toss him, Trump was like, “Oh, please throw me out, that’s what I want.” And I think that one of the things that’s so strange is that this is a split-screen for Trumpism. For him this is just comedy gold. It’s performance gold for each scene he’s in.

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Molly: She’s 80.

Dahlia: And she’s sitting there in the scariest situation. And here’s Alina Habba reading threatening tweets at her.

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Molly: E. Jean is a microcosm for Trump’s misogyny. And I’m not even just talking about Trump’s misogyny. I’m sure you saw this article about the estimation that about 60,000 women in all of these states have been victims of rape and gotten pregnant and had to have their rapist’s babies in the states with abortion bans. The point is that it’s tens of thousands of women being forced to have their rapist’s babies, right?

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So this, in Trumpism, is funny. He says things like, “I wouldn’t rape her. She’s not even my type.” And it’s so misogynistic that it strikes me to the core. This misogyny, you pull back and it has real-world consequences. Yes, this is terrible for E. Jean, but E. Jean is definitely going to get at least $5 million and probably more. She has Robbie [Kaplan], she has security, she has people around her. Whereas the woman in Texas who just got raped, who doesn’t have the money or the time to take three days off from work, is going to have her rapist’s baby. That’s the thing with Trumpism, it reverberates, right? Misogyny reverberates. It has real-world consequences for people. And the idea that we’re on the precipice of another Trump presidency is very scary.

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I think E. Jean didn’t feel she had a choice. I think she did what she felt she had to do. And we all owe her a huge debt of gratitude, in my mind, because how long do any of us live; to 90, 100? If it were the last or second-to-last decade of my life, would I want to spend it sitting in court again? Getting death threats from MAGA? I’m not sure anything is worth that. It’s one thing to say she has security, which she does, but we only have so much time on this planet. And that, for me, would be a very tough sell. So, I do owe her. I feel as women, we owe her a huge debt of gratitude.

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The Genius of E. Jean Carroll’s Strategy

6 1
31.01.2024
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Last Friday, after deliberating for only a few hours, a Manhattan jury awarded journalist E. Jean Carroll $83 million in damages for defamation in a lawsuit she filed against Donald J. Trump. The former president, who devoted most of his in-person energy at trial to insulting the judge, bullying the plaintiff, and pitching tiny tantrums, has not only conceded that he was out-lawyered, but has also, perhaps in a historic first, avoided defaming Carroll on social media or in the press in the intervening days, seemingly in actual recognition of this verdict. There seems to be, at least for the moment, a template for stopping a serial harasser, misogynist, and adjudicated sexual abuser from persisting in that behavior.

Advertisement

Perhaps all of our anguish about how the existing legal guardrails are inadequate to hold Trump to account are wrong. Maybe we already know exactly what needs to be done to win against him, in a court of law at least—it demands only rock-ribbed judges, seasoned lawyers, and a jury that can still detect a bully when they smell one.

Carroll’s legal team handled the litigation as it handled the prior defamation trial, with competence and focus. Roberta Kaplan, whose law firm represents Carroll, has not only prevailed over Trump in both civil defamation lawsuits, she also beat the Nazis and Klansmen who marched in Charlottesville in 2017, and successfully represented Edie Windsor in a challenge to the Defense of Marriage Act at the Supreme Court, opening the door to marriage equality.

Kaplan, who became a chapter in my book, Lady Justice, about women lawyers who fought back against Trump during his presidency, is again receiving plaudits this week for her legal acumen and strategic skills in court (disclosure, Kaplan is a friend). But there’s one other quality Kaplan brings to counsel table that perhaps hasn’t received sufficient attention. I point it out because it in fact seems critical to her larger successful strategy. I........

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